Topic's of discussion (not to be voted on)

Tex Hewitt

<div class="IPBDescription">at 2006 TG meeting</div>These following items will be up for descussion only at the TG Meeting at the SASS Convention:<br />
<br />
* Should we revamp the Modern and the Traditional Catigories?<br />
An idea was discussed at the New England and Mid-West Regional TG Meeting's to make the Modern Catigory an open catigory in which all SASS legal firearms (both open and adjustable sights) and any ammunition can be used. Then redifine the Traditional Catigory as a true "Traditional" Catigory, Allowing only Traditional calibers of 25-20,32-20, 38-40, 44-40 and 45 colt. Ammunition could be either smokeless or Blackpowder. revolvers would be limited to full size, fixed sight handguns. Rifles and shotguns would be all SASS legal rifles and shotguns. There would be no clothing requirements other then the SASS minimum<br />
<br />
* In light of the recent accident, should we mandate all firearms remain on the loading table untill the shooter is called to the shooting line or the expediter position?<br />
<br />
Remember, these items are for discussion only, and will not be voted on this year.

Dastardly Dan

I personally like the idea of traditional cartridges. They come with their own problems, but certainly a lot of history attached. <img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Lawman Wolf

Tex Hewitt wrote on Sep 21 2006, 09&#58;18 PM:

<br />
These following items will be up for descussion only at the TG Meeting at the SASS Convention:<br />
<br />
* Should we revamp the Modern and the Traditional Catigories?<br />
An idea was discussed at the New England and Mid-West Regional TG Meeting's to make the Modern Catigory an open catigory in which all SASS legal firearms (both open and adjustable sights) and any ammunition can be used. Then redifine the Traditional Catigory as a true "Traditional" Catigory, Allowing only Traditional calibers of 25-20,32-20, 38-40, 44-40 and 45 colt. Ammunition could be either smokeless or Blackpowder. revolvers would be limited to full size, fixed sight handguns. Rifles and shotguns would be all SASS legal rifles and shotguns. There would be no clothing requirements other then the SASS minimum<br />
<br />
* In light of the recent accident, should we mandate all firearms remain on the loading table untill the shooter is called to the shooting line or the expediter position?<br />
<br />
Remember, these items are for discussion only, and will not be voted on this year.<br />

<br />
It would make more sense to leave Modern and Traditional alone and make an "Authentic Category" if one is wanted.<br />
<br />
As for leaving guns on the table I already use that practice and make sure my son does as well and it (may) have avoided that accident you mention.

Tex Hewitt

Wolf,<br />
<br />
The wording of this post is from the TG bulletin. It is all word for word as it appears there.<br />
<br />
However,<br />
<br />
The accident mentioned happened (for those who don't already know this) at the Ill. State Championship this past year. <br />
<br />
The shooter was a young shooter, who after holstering his guns, managed to not only cock both pistols, but also fire them while still in the holsters. He was injured, but luckly not to badly. He did have to go to the hospital, and get some stiches, and he was wounded in both legs. Because of this, SASS wants the TG's to reexamine our safety procedures.<br />
<br />
Thus it is a topic for discussion only.

Longtooth

Doc,<br />
<br />
The accident that happened was not during holstering. The weapons were in the holsters and the young man was fiddling with them. Loading table control could have possibly stopped this incident from happening. Who knows and you are right accidents have a way of happening irrespective of any and all controls or rules.

Ugly

I have no problem with either rule about the guns and the loading table however, I have noticed in my travels a lot of folks leaving the loading table with their loaded firearms in their holsters which isn't so bad by itself except for the fact that loaded firearms are supposed to be at the loading table and under the supervision of the loading table officer. <br />
<br />
My questions are: <br />
<br />
[1] what is the penalty for leaving the loading table with loaded weapons, <br />
<br />
[2] should a penalty or a warning be given for the first offense, <br />
<br />
[3] should this be incorporated into the safety meeting before each shoot? <br />
<br />
Maybe that's something that should be mentioned at each safety meeting before each shoot commences; just a thought.

Tex Hewitt

Ugly,<br />
<br />
Sorry for not answering your question sooner, but did not see it till today.<br />
<br />
Yes, there is a penality for leaving the loading table with loaded guns, a serious one<br />
<br />
STAGE DQ!<br />
<br />
This falls under failure to adhear to the loading and unloading proceedure. No shooter, except for going to the firing line, is allowed to leave the loading table caring loaded guns.

dd

Ugly wrote on Sep 24 2006, 07&#58;35 PM:

<br />
<br />
My questions are: <br />
<br />
[1] what is the penalty for leaving the loading table with loaded weapons, <br />
<br />
[2] should a penalty or a warning be given for the first offense, <br />
<br />
[3] should this be incorporated into the safety meeting before each shoot? <br />
<br />

<br />
<br />
Ugly,<br />
<br />
To clarify your questions, yes the penalty for leaving the loading table with a loaded firearm is a stage DQ. <br />
<br />
While the RO Manual leaves no latitude to give a warning if a violation occurs, one also must use some common sense. Is this a new shooter? How far from the loading table constitutes a violation? It is the loading table Officer who is charged with, "Never allow a competitor to leave the loading table with a loaded firearm unless they are going to the firing line." (ROI MANUAL, 2006, p. 8). Nevertheless it is the shooter who has ultimate responsibility for his or her own conduct regardless of any action or inaction on the part of the loading table officer. To quote from the same page of the SASS ROI manual again: "<br />
<br />

Remember: The primary responsibility always rests with the competitor. Shooters should always know the condition of their firearms and should never depend upon the Loading and Unloading Officers to ensure their firearms are correctly loaded and unloaded. The Loading and Unloading Officers are simply an added measure of safety. A competitor may never blame the Loading Officer for an incorrectly loaded firearm, and at no time will this claim be considered grounds for dismissal of penalties.

<br />
<br />
As to your last question, yes it could be included in the briefing if it becomes a problem. Normally we must limit the safety briefing to local rules and items that present a definite hazard in order to keep the briefing short enough not to have people losing interest. If Dice or I see it becoming a problem, I'm certain you'll hear about it in the next briefing.<br />
<br />
Hope this answers your questions,

Saguaro Kid

dd wrote on Oct 14 2006, 11&#58;37 AM:

As to your last question, yes it could be included in the briefing if it becomes a problem. Normally we must limit the safety briefing to local rules and items that present a definite hazard in order to keep the briefing short enough not to have people losing interest. If Dice or I see it becoming a problem, I'm certain you'll hear about it in the next briefing.<br />
<br />
Hope this answers your questions,

<br />
<br />
I think the main thing is that this is a "briefing". Like Denny said if things seem to become a problem they will be included. Briefings can be like rule books, pretty soon they become so complicated that it takes a lawyer to interpret them.<br />
<br />
SK

CavSarge

Hellos;<br />
I'm new to this, so forgive my intergetion if it doesn't make sense, but in the Re-enacting communitte many units require you to discharge or empty all chambers, or breeches on the field before re-entering any public area or returning to camp. This is done not only for the shooters safety, but the publics, although we're shooting blanks, it isn't wise to have loaded firearms in an unsafe area, I would think that would be doubly true with live ammo.<br />
<br />
Thanks, Cav <img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cowboy1.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cowboy1:' />

CavSarge

Sorry that bizzare word up ther abouts was sposed to be interjection^

jeweler jim

The only place that there should be a loaded weapon in CAS is at the loading table or the firing line. Possibly at the unloading table if there is a problem.