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In this Discussion
That's a wrap! Thanks for a great season. See you all next year!
We should be shooting 2nd Saturday and 4th Sunday again next year.
Final schedule to be finalized in February.
We should be shooting 2nd Saturday and 4th Sunday again next year.
Final schedule to be finalized in February.
Some important issues we need to discuss
dd
Gnome, gnome on the range!
OK, folks. Gather around the campfire and make yourselves comfy while I put on my ROII Instructors hat and drag out my soapbox (gotta have one, ya know). Some things happened at our last match that need to be addressed. Please read the following carefully, please don't just skim it.<br />
<br />
First, if you haven't recently (in the last 6 months) read over your 2008 Shooters Handbook, I'd strongly suggest you do so. If you haven't a copy, you can download one here - 2008 Shooters Handbook A lot of things have changed in the past year or so and some folks are still making calls based on rules which no longer exist or have changed.<br />
<br />
For example, the handbook says:<br />
<br />
<br />
In other words, it is now LEGAL to pull your reload ammo from loops on a holster for reloads. Also, many of the rules that were in the ROI manual have been moved to the Shooters Handbook so that all shooters have access to and are expected to abide by the rules.<br />
<br />
Timers & Spotters<br />
I heard a number of complaints regarding timers and spotters. All shooters acting as timer at the GGP shoots must be ROII qualified. We spend a lot of time in the ROII course training folks on the proper way to serve as a timer. I know it looks like a simple job but there are parts folks seem to be missing. And that becomes even more important now with the complaints I've heard. Let's review:<br />
<br />
Before starting a shooter the timer asks for three spotters. The timer needs to see three spotters (with dynamite sticks) and is to make sure they are positioned to see the opposite side of the shooter from the timer and have adequate visibility of all the targets. When the stage is complete, the timer polls the spotters for misses and procedurals. The other shooters watching have NO INPUT to this process. The spotters DO NOT debate with each other in an effort to convince the other spotters they were wrong. It is very simple, each spotter states what he/she saw and the timer goes with the majority. THE BENEFIT OF DOUBT ALWAYS GOES TO THE SHOOTER.<br />
<br />
We have had several instances in previous matches where we had a debate involving folks who were not spotters - this is wrong. It happened again at our last match and resulted in a procedural which was very questionable. The timer must take charge and stop these debates - only the three spotters have a call. The timer has no input either as he/she is supposed to be watching the gun, not the targets.<br />
<br />
When the stage is complete and the timer has polled the spotters and announced the time & penalties to the scorekeeper, he/she will announce the results in a voice loud enough that the shooter knows what he/she received. It is only fair to let the shooter know what you have given them especially if there is a procedural, other penalty or disagreement among the spotters.<br />
<br />
If a shooter does not agree with the call, we have two ROII Instructors on the Posse - myself and Pair-A-Dice. I encourage anyone disagreeing with a call to come to me and lodge a protest. We will attempt to reach a fair and unbiased decision.<br />
<br />
I've also received complaints that one of the new shooters swept the posse more then once with a shotgun and was not confronted. We try to cut the new folks some slack but sweeping others cannot be tolerated. If you see any violations such as this, you need to say something to the person immediately, not call me two days after the match and complain. We are all Safety Officers on the range and need to take responsibility for our own and others safety.<br />
<br />
OK, that's my rant. Go back to what you were doing but please give some thought to these issues.
<br />
First, if you haven't recently (in the last 6 months) read over your 2008 Shooters Handbook, I'd strongly suggest you do so. If you haven't a copy, you can download one here - 2008 Shooters Handbook A lot of things have changed in the past year or so and some folks are still making calls based on rules which no longer exist or have changed.<br />
<br />
For example, the handbook says:<br />
<br />
Ammunition required for reloads during the course of any stage must be carried on the<br />
shooter’s person in a bandoleer, belt, pouch, holster, or pocket or be safely staged as<br />
required by stage instructions. Rifle and revolver ammunition may not be carried in a<br />
shotgun loop. No ammunition may be carried in the mouth, ears, nose, cleavage, or any<br />
other bodily orifice.
<br />shooter’s person in a bandoleer, belt, pouch, holster, or pocket or be safely staged as<br />
required by stage instructions. Rifle and revolver ammunition may not be carried in a<br />
shotgun loop. No ammunition may be carried in the mouth, ears, nose, cleavage, or any<br />
other bodily orifice.
<br />
In other words, it is now LEGAL to pull your reload ammo from loops on a holster for reloads. Also, many of the rules that were in the ROI manual have been moved to the Shooters Handbook so that all shooters have access to and are expected to abide by the rules.<br />
<br />
Timers & Spotters<br />
I heard a number of complaints regarding timers and spotters. All shooters acting as timer at the GGP shoots must be ROII qualified. We spend a lot of time in the ROII course training folks on the proper way to serve as a timer. I know it looks like a simple job but there are parts folks seem to be missing. And that becomes even more important now with the complaints I've heard. Let's review:<br />
<br />
Before starting a shooter the timer asks for three spotters. The timer needs to see three spotters (with dynamite sticks) and is to make sure they are positioned to see the opposite side of the shooter from the timer and have adequate visibility of all the targets. When the stage is complete, the timer polls the spotters for misses and procedurals. The other shooters watching have NO INPUT to this process. The spotters DO NOT debate with each other in an effort to convince the other spotters they were wrong. It is very simple, each spotter states what he/she saw and the timer goes with the majority. THE BENEFIT OF DOUBT ALWAYS GOES TO THE SHOOTER.<br />
<br />
We have had several instances in previous matches where we had a debate involving folks who were not spotters - this is wrong. It happened again at our last match and resulted in a procedural which was very questionable. The timer must take charge and stop these debates - only the three spotters have a call. The timer has no input either as he/she is supposed to be watching the gun, not the targets.<br />
<br />
When the stage is complete and the timer has polled the spotters and announced the time & penalties to the scorekeeper, he/she will announce the results in a voice loud enough that the shooter knows what he/she received. It is only fair to let the shooter know what you have given them especially if there is a procedural, other penalty or disagreement among the spotters.<br />
<br />
If a shooter does not agree with the call, we have two ROII Instructors on the Posse - myself and Pair-A-Dice. I encourage anyone disagreeing with a call to come to me and lodge a protest. We will attempt to reach a fair and unbiased decision.<br />
<br />
I've also received complaints that one of the new shooters swept the posse more then once with a shotgun and was not confronted. We try to cut the new folks some slack but sweeping others cannot be tolerated. If you see any violations such as this, you need to say something to the person immediately, not call me two days after the match and complain. We are all Safety Officers on the range and need to take responsibility for our own and others safety.<br />
<br />
OK, that's my rant. Go back to what you were doing but please give some thought to these issues.
Comments
<br />
Hi Bandit,<br />
<br />
I saw your question on this on the TG wire and also Palewolf's answer. And as he said, yes the TO can call a procedural but there are qualifications. He said, "If the T/O is the only one in a position to see the procedural, s/he can make the call." That was not the case here. The specific instance I'm referring to involved folks other than spotters or TOs influencing the spotters decision and spotters being convinced by other spotters to change their call. Neither of which is fair to the shooter.<br />
<br />
My apologies if I misled anyone.
QUOTE H) It is up to the Timer Operator to verify at least two of the three Spotters agree on misses.Range Ops (page 8)<br />
<br />
Note that a consensus is NOT required for a Procedural call. <br />
<br />
This is from Pale Wolf...............