TG Summit Items

jeweler jim · October 2010

<div class="IPBDescription">Need your feed back...</div>[color="#099000"][size="4"]Doubt that I'll make it to Vegas, but will be sure to have my proxy in to have it voted with your input. Reply here and or at any place your cross my path to give me feed back. [/size][/color] 
 
[color="#000000"][size="4"]Agenda Items for the 2010 Territorial Governors Summit 
 
 
1. Should we eliminate the 10-second minor safety penalty for overloading a RIFLE? 
This will do away with the double penalty for overloading a rifle at the loading table; and then leaving the extra live round(s) in the long gun. Penalties for leaving unfired rounds in the rifle would still apply but, if a shooter overloaded the rifle, they could clear it within the current rules and not be charged a penalty. This rule change would not make the rifle any less safe. 
Note this only applies to a rifle and NOT to a revolver or shotgun. 
Should the following Minor Safety Penalty be deleted? 
Loading more than the correct number of live rounds in a firearm. 
 
2. Should we change the rule regarding empties left on the carrier or in the chamber of a long gun? An unfired round in the chamber would continue to carry a Stage Disqualification penalty and an unfired round anywhere else in the action or magazine a 10 second minor safety. This change would eliminate all penalties for EMPTY rounds in the chamber or action of long guns. 
Should the MSV penalty for leaving an EMPTY case/hull in a long gun be deleted? 
 
3. Should we create the new sanctioned shooting category Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter? The category would follow the firearm and ammo guidelines of the current Frontier Cartridge category and follow the shooting style and holster requirements of the current Gunfighter Category. 
The main reason to add FCGF to the list of "officially recognized" categories is that it brings the BP categories up to par with the smokeless ones in regard to available shooting styles. 
Smokeless = Open/age-based (two-handed); Duelist/Senior Duelist/Classic (one-handed); Gunfighter/B-Western (both hands) 
Black Powder = Frontier Ctg (two-handed); Frontiersman/Frontier Ctg Duelist (one-handed); 
FCGF (both hands) 
 
4. The Burgess Rifle is a SASS legal firearm. It was patented in 1882. 
Should the rifle regulations for B-Western be changed as follows to allow the earliest rifle to be from 1880 instead of present 1884? 
Rifles: Any SASSlegal rifle of 1880 or later design or a replica thereof (i.e. Burgess, Lightning, 1892, 1894 Winchester or Marlin). 
 
DISCUSSION ITEMS: 
1) Multiple alias entries by the same individual at the SASS-sanctioned (State +) level. 
2) Mares Leg handgun as a main match firearm. 
3) Category restructuring ideas.[/size] [/color]

Muddy Gap Shootist · October 2010

'jeweler wrote on '09:

 
[color="#099000"][size="4"]Doubt that I'll make it to Vegas, but will be sure to have my proxy in to have it voted with your input. Reply here and or at any place your cross my path to give me feed back. [/size][/color] 
 
[color="#000000"][size="4"]Agenda Items for the 2010 Territorial Governors Summit 
 
 
1. Should we eliminate the 10-second minor safety penalty for overloading a RIFLE? 
This will do away with the double penalty for overloading a rifle at the loading table; and then leaving the extra live round(s) in the long gun. Penalties for leaving unfired rounds in the rifle would still apply but, if a shooter overloaded the rifle, they could clear it within the current rules and not be charged a penalty. This rule change would not make the rifle any less safe. 
Note this only applies to a rifle and NOT to a revolver or shotgun. 
Should the following Minor Safety Penalty be deleted? 
Loading more than the correct number of live rounds in a firearm. 
 
 
Just my two bits worth--- 
 
NO on #1; NO on #2; YES on #3; and, YES on #4 
 
2. Should we change the rule regarding empties left on the carrier or in the chamber of a long gun? An unfired round in the chamber would continue to carry a Stage Disqualification penalty and an unfired round anywhere else in the action or magazine a 10 second minor safety. This change would eliminate all penalties for EMPTY rounds in the chamber or action of long guns. 
Should the MSV penalty for leaving an EMPTY case/hull in a long gun be deleted? 
 
3. Should we create the new sanctioned shooting category Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter? The category would follow the firearm and ammo guidelines of the current Frontier Cartridge category and follow the shooting style and holster requirements of the current Gunfighter Category. 
The main reason to add FCGF to the list of "officially recognized" categories is that it brings the BP categories up to par with the smokeless ones in regard to available shooting styles. 
Smokeless = Open/age-based (two-handed); Duelist/Senior Duelist/Classic (one-handed); Gunfighter/B-Western (both hands) 
Black Powder = Frontier Ctg (two-handed); Frontiersman/Frontier Ctg Duelist (one-handed); 
FCGF (both hands) 
 
4. The Burgess Rifle is a SASS legal firearm. It was patented in 1882. 
Should the rifle regulations for B-Western be changed as follows to allow the earliest rifle to be from 1880 instead of present 1884? 
Rifles: Any SASSlegal rifle of 1880 or later design or a replica thereof (i.e. Burgess, Lightning, 1892, 1894 Winchester or Marlin). 
 
DISCUSSION ITEMS: 
1) Multiple alias entries by the same individual at the SASS-sanctioned (State +) level. 
2) Mares Leg handgun as a main match firearm. 
3) Category restructuring ideas.[/size] [/color]

Snidely Whiplash · October 2010

'jeweler wrote on '09:

 
[color="#099000"][size="3"]Doubt that I'll make it to Vegas, but will be sure to have my proxy in to have it voted with your input. Reply here and or at any place your cross my path to give me feed back. [/size][/color] 
 
[color="#000000"][size="3"]Agenda Items for the 2010 Territorial Governors Summit 
 
 
1. Should we eliminate the 10-second minor safety penalty for overloading a RIFLE? 
This will do away with the double penalty for overloading a rifle at the loading table; and then leaving the extra live round(s) in the long gun. Penalties for leaving unfired rounds in the rifle would still apply but, if a shooter overloaded the rifle, they could clear it within the current rules and not be charged a penalty. This rule change would not make the rifle any less safe. 
Note this only applies to a rifle and NOT to a revolver or shotgun. 
Should the following Minor Safety Penalty be deleted? 
• Loading more than the correct number of live rounds in a firearm. 
[/size][/color]

Most of the cowboys I've watched at matches bring a measured number of rounds to the loading table, i.e., 10 rounds for their rifle and 10 rounds for their pistols. That makes it safer as it's harder to load more than 10 in your rifle without noticing one or both of your pistols are short of a full load. I've seen a few cowboys with 50 round plastic boxes with a separate hole for each round at the loading table, and if they get to leaving partial rows in the box, they could forget how many they put in the rifle. 
 
Just out of curiosity, how many readers take more than 20 rounds of ammo (not counting belt loops and bandoliers) in a loose box, bucket, pouch, etc., to the loading table? 
 
Snidely Whiplash

Johnny Popper · October 2010

My 3 cents worth. (due to inflation) 
 
#1 NO. Shooter should be aware of what is required for each stage and not have more ammo than required. It usually is read at the beginning of each stage. The loading table officer should remind the shooter. 
#2 YES. As long as there are no more live rounds in the long gun. 
#3 YES. 
#4 NO. B Western usually had 92 Winchesters. Even if they wanted a 66 Henry, the took the for-stock off the 92. 
 
Discussion items: 
#1. Seems it might be confusing. Double entries? 
#2. I don't think it is a good idea. But I would like to have one. 
#3. No ideas on that one! 
 
 
JP

Old Blackhawk Creek Coot · October 2010

[color="#0000FF"][size="4"][font="Comic Sans MS"]As I see it(for what that's worth) 
 
#1. No. I think that is part of just paying attention to the stage. 
 
#2. Yes. That can be just an unforseeable incident, i.e. an empty rifle round landing in a '97, that would technically be a violation. 
 
#3. Yes. That I think is just an easy change. 
 
#4. No. At what point do we say; hey, let's change it to use a '73 cuz it's only a few years early and it is a SASS legal gun. 
 
Discussion items: 
 
1) Really? Just one alias per entrant per match, period. 
2) I just don't think it is a good idea. But, like JP I would like to have one. 
3) That could get dicey. Changes could really start a lot of whining and moaning.[/font][/size][/color]

Wrangler Rich · October 2010

Agenda Items for the 2010 Territorial Governors Summit 
 
 
1. Should we eliminate the 10-second minor safety penalty for overloading a RIFLE? 
This will do away with the double penalty for overloading a rifle at the loading table; and then leaving the extra live round(s) in the long gun. Penalties for leaving unfired rounds in the rifle would still apply but, if a shooter overloaded the rifle, they could clear it within the current rules and not be charged a penalty. This rule change would not make the rifle any less safe. 
Note this only applies to a rifle and NOT to a revolver or shotgun. 
Should the following Minor Safety Penalty be deleted? 
Loading more than the correct number of live rounds in a firearm. 
 
[color="#FF0000"]No[/color] 
 
 
2. Should we change the rule regarding empties left on the carrier or in the chamber of a long gun? An unfired round in the chamber would continue to carry a Stage Disqualification penalty and an unfired round anywhere else in the action or magazine a 10 second minor safety. This change would eliminate all penalties for EMPTY rounds in the chamber or action of long guns. 
Should the MSV penalty for leaving an EMPTY case/hull in a long gun be deleted? 
 
 
[color="#FF0000"]No[/color] 
 
 
3. Should we create the new sanctioned shooting category Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter? The category would follow the firearm and ammo guidelines of the current Frontier Cartridge category and follow the shooting style and holster requirements of the current Gunfighter Category. 
The main reason to add FCGF to the list of "officially recognized" categories is that it brings the BP categories up to par with the smokeless ones in regard to available shooting styles. 
Smokeless = Open/age-based (two-handed); Duelist/Senior Duelist/Classic (one-handed); Gunfighter/B-Western (both hands) 
Black Powder = Frontier Ctg (two-handed); Frontiersman/Frontier Ctg Duelist (one-handed); 
FCGF (both hands) 
 
 
[color="#FF0000"]Yes[/color] 
 
 
4. The Burgess Rifle is a SASS legal firearm. It was patented in 1882. 
Should the rifle regulations for B-Western be changed as follows to allow the earliest rifle to be from 1880 instead of present 1884? 
Rifles: Any SASSlegal rifle of 1880 or later design or a replica thereof (i.e. Burgess, Lightning, 1892, 1894 Winchester or Marlin). 
 
[color="#FF0000"]No[/color] 
 
DISCUSSION ITEMS: 
1) Multiple alias entries by the same individual at the SASS-sanctioned (State +) level. 
 
[color="#FF0000"]1 is enough for anybody, if he or she would shoot twice, they couldn't do twice the work. It would also be an unfair advantage due to the fact that they already know the stage from just shooting it.[/color] 
 
2) Mares Leg handgun as a main match firearm. 
 
[color="#FF0000"]No [/color] 
 
 
3) Category restructuring ideas. 
 
[color="#FF0000"]Need to have a moritorium placed on new rules. 2 years minimum after a rule change from previous rule.[/color] 
 
 
[color="#FF0000"]Just my Dos Centavos[/color] 
 
 
WR

Push the Button Wyatt · October 2010

Most of what your talking about is miles over my head. Something to do with old age, i think.Now for the "Mares Leg Handgun" The way i see it, It's not a HAND GUN, it's just a sawed up, choped up piece of CRAP.Why any one would do that to a rifle is way behond Stupid.Of course my dear ole dad used to eat pickeled pigs feet,so what do i know ???

Ugly · October 2010

Agenda Items for the 2010 Territorial Governors Summit 
 
 
1. Should we eliminate the 10-second minor safety penalty for overloading a RIFLE? 
This will do away with the double penalty for overloading a rifle at the loading table; and then leaving the extra live round(s) in the long gun. Penalties for leaving unfired rounds in the rifle would still apply but, if a shooter overloaded the rifle, they could clear it within the current rules and not be charged a penalty. This rule change would not make the rifle any less safe. 
Note this only applies to a rifle andlver or shotgun. 
Should the following Minor Safety Penalty be deleted? 
Loading more than the correct number of live rounds in a firearm. 
 
[size="5"][color="#A0522D"]No[/color][/size] 
 
 
2. Should we change the rule regarding empties left on the carrier or in the chamber of a long gun? An unfired round in the chamber would continue to carry a Stage Disqualification penalty and an unfired round anywhere else in the action or magazine a 10 second minor safety. This change would eliminate all penalties for EMPTY rounds in the chamber or action of long guns. 
Should the MSV penalty for leaving an EMPTY case/hull in a long gun be deleted? 
 
 
[size="5"][color="#A0522D"]Yes--How in the world can an empty shell casing that accidentally was not ejected or, has fallen into an open chamber be a danger?[/color][/size] 
 
 
3. Should we create the new sanctioned shooting category Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter? The category would follow the firearm and ammo guidelines of the current Frontier Cartridge category and follow the shooting style and holster requirements of the current Gunfighter Category. 
The main reason to add FCGF to the list of "officially recognized" categories is that it brings the BP categories up to par with the smokeless ones in regard to available shooting styles. 
Smokeless = Open/age-based (two-handed); Duelist/Senior Duelist/Classic (one-handed); Gunfighter/B-Western (both hands) 
Black Powder = Frontier Ctg (two-handed); Frontiersman/Frontier Ctg Duelist (one-handed); 
FCGF (both hands) 
 
[size="5"][color="#A0522D"] 
No--let them shoot in regular Gunfighter or Senior Gunfighter class, It's their choice of what kind of powder to use.[/color][/size] 
 
 
4. The Burgess Rifle is a SASS legal firearm. It was patented in 1882. 
Should the rifle regulations for B-Western be changed as follows to allow the earliest rifle to be from 1880 instead of present 1884? 
Rifles: Any SASSlegal rifle of 1880 or later design or a replica thereof (i.e. Burgess, Lightning, 1892, 1894 Winchester or Marlin). 
 
[size="5"][color="#A0522D"]Yes[/color][/size] 
 
DISCUSSION ITEMS: 
1) Multiple alias entries by the same individual at the SASS-sanctioned (State +) level. 
 
[color="#A0522D"]No[/color] 
 
2) Mares Leg handgun as a main match firearm. 
[size="5"][color="#A0522D"] 
No[/color][/size] 
 
 
3) Category restructuring ideas. 
[size="5"][color="#A0522D"] 
None[/color][/size]

Chicago Outlaw Sider · October 2010

Oh My God!! This is getting out of controll. 
 
[color="#FF0000"][/color]Just Say NOOOOOOO !!!!! <img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':thumbdown:' /> <img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/disgust.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':disgust:' />

jeweler jim · November 2010

[color="#099000"][size="4"]Okay, one hundred plus badge carrying members and eleven current Rough Riders... 
 
And what is the response to represent or be carried to the summit regarding what we want? 
 
FIVE! 
 
Don't think I should be giving my take on the agenda, but explain it if you ain't sure of what they mean. If that's your excuse ask questions, but five people to call the tune for the entire posse??? [/size][/color]

Huckleberry · November 2010

[size="2"][font="Arial Black"][color="#4B0082"]Agenda Items for the 2010 Territorial Governors Summit 
 
 
1. Should we eliminate the 10-second minor safety penalty for overloading a RIFLE? 
This will do away with the double penalty for overloading a rifle at the loading table; and then leaving the extra live round(s) in the long gun. Penalties for leaving unfired rounds in the rifle would still apply but, if a shooter overloaded the rifle, they could clear it within the current rules and not be charged a penalty. This rule change would not make the rifle any less safe. 
Note this only applies to a rifle and NOT to a revolver or shotgun. 
Should the following Minor Safety Penalty be deleted? 
Loading more than the correct number of live rounds in a firearm. 
 
No 
 
 
2. Should we change the rule regarding empties left on the carrier or in the chamber of a long gun? An unfired round in the chamber would continue to carry a Stage Disqualification penalty and an unfired round anywhere else in the action or magazine a 10 second minor safety. This change would eliminate all penalties for EMPTY rounds in the chamber or action of long guns. 
Should the MSV penalty for leaving an EMPTY case/hull in a long gun be deleted? 
 
 
No 
 
 
3. Should we create the new sanctioned shooting category Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter? The category would follow the firearm and ammo guidelines of the current Frontier Cartridge category and follow the shooting style and holster requirements of the current Gunfighter Category. 
The main reason to add FCGF to the list of "officially recognized" categories is that it brings the BP categories up to par with the smokeless ones in regard to available shooting styles. 
Smokeless = Open/age-based (two-handed); Duelist/Senior Duelist/Classic (one-handed); Gunfighter/B-Western (both hands) 
Black Powder = Frontier Ctg (two-handed); Frontiersman/Frontier Ctg Duelist (one-handed); 
FCGF (both hands) 
 
 
Yes 
 
 
4. The Burgess Rifle is a SASS legal firearm. It was patented in 1882. 
Should the rifle regulations for B-Western be changed as follows to allow the earliest rifle to be from 1880 instead of present 1884? 
Rifles: Any SASSlegal rifle of 1880 or later design or a replica thereof (i.e. Burgess, Lightning, 1892, 1894 Winchester or Marlin). 
 
Yes 
 
DISCUSSION ITEMS: 
1) Multiple alias entries by the same individual at the SASS-sanctioned (State +) level. 
 
No 
 
2) Mares Leg handgun as a main match firearm. 
 
No 
 
 
3) Category restructuring ideas. 
 
No 
 
[/color][/font][/size]

Chicago Outlaw Sider · November 2010

'Huckleberry' wrote on '15:

 
[size="2"][font="Arial Black"][color="#4B0082"]Agenda Items for the 2010 Territorial Governors Summit 
 
 
1. Should we eliminate the 10-second minor safety penalty for overloading a RIFLE? 
This will do away with the double penalty for overloading a rifle at the loading table; and then leaving the extra live round(s) in the long gun. Penalties for leaving unfired rounds in the rifle would still apply but, if a shooter overloaded the rifle, they could clear it within the current rules and not be charged a penalty. This rule change would not make the rifle any less safe. 
Note this only applies to a rifle and NOT to a revolver or shotgun. 
Should the following Minor Safety Penalty be deleted? 
Loading more than the correct number of live rounds in a firearm. 
 
No 
 
 
2. Should we change the rule regarding empties left on the carrier or in the chamber of a long gun? An unfired round in the chamber would continue to carry a Stage Disqualification penalty and an unfired round anywhere else in the action or magazine a 10 second minor safety. This change would eliminate all penalties for EMPTY rounds in the chamber or action of long guns. 
Should the MSV penalty for leaving an EMPTY case/hull in a long gun be deleted? 
 
 
No 
 
 
3. Should we create the new sanctioned shooting category Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter? The category would follow the firearm and ammo guidelines of the current Frontier Cartridge category and follow the shooting style and holster requirements of the current Gunfighter Category. 
The main reason to add FCGF to the list of "officially recognized" categories is that it brings the BP categories up to par with the smokeless ones in regard to available shooting styles. 
Smokeless = Open/age-based (two-handed); Duelist/Senior Duelist/Classic (one-handed); Gunfighter/B-Western (both hands) 
Black Powder = Frontier Ctg (two-handed); Frontiersman/Frontier Ctg Duelist (one-handed); 
FCGF (both hands) 
 
 
Yes 
 
 
4. The Burgess Rifle is a SASS legal firearm. It was patented in 1882. 
Should the rifle regulations for B-Western be changed as follows to allow the earliest rifle to be from 1880 instead of present 1884? 
Rifles: Any SASSlegal rifle of 1880 or later design or a replica thereof (i.e. Burgess, Lightning, 1892, 1894 Winchester or Marlin). 
 
Yes 
 
DISCUSSION ITEMS: 
1) Multiple alias entries by the same individual at the SASS-sanctioned (State +) level. 
 
No 
 
2) Mares Leg handgun as a main match firearm. 
 
No 
 
 
3) Category restructuring ideas. 
 
No 
 
[/color][/font][/size]

jeweler jim · November 2010

[color="#099000"][size="4"]I will be sending our proxy vote off in the mail next Tuesday or so... 
 
As it stands right now we have less than one response for every fifteen members which means than most on the posse can't really complain about the way anything gets voted on at the summit. [/size][/color]

Rio Jack · November 2010

[font="Arial"][size="5"]No on all counts except #4 Yes to Burgess Rifle.[/size][/font]

dd · November 2010

What Rio Jack said.

Chicago Outlaw Sider · November 2010

I thank you all for what you do for us. I for one try and get on our web site once a week. I know there has been a lot of work put into this site and I wish more people would use it. 
 
Sometimes I say to much, sometimes not enough. 
 
Thanks 
COS <img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/gunfighter.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':gunfighter:' />

Snidely Whiplash · November 2010

[size="3"]Agenda Items for the 2010 Territorial Governors Summit[/size] 
 
 
[color="#A0522D"]1. Should we eliminate the 10-second minor safety penalty for overloading a RIFLE? 
[/color] 
No 
 
[color="#A0522D"]2. Should we change the rule regarding empties left on the carrier or in the chamber of a long gun? 
[/color] 
No 
 
[color="#A0522D"]3. Should we create the new sanctioned shooting category Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter? 
[/color] 
I don't care either way. 
 
[color="#A0522D"]4. The Burgess Rifle is a SASS legal firearm. It was patented in 1882. 
Should the rifle regulations for B-Western be changed as follows to allow the earliest rifle to be from 1880 instead of present 1884? 
[/color] 
Yes 
 
[color="#556B2F"]DISCUSSION ITEMS: 
1) Multiple alias entries by the same individual at the SASS-sanctioned (State +) level. 
[/color] 
Yes, they should be allowed. No! (except for schizophrenics and people suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder). Maybe.... I don't know. Why would anyone want to? 
 
[color="#556B2F"]2) Mares Leg handgun as a main match firearm. 
[/color] 
Yes, but only as a rifle, not as a handgun. <img src='http://www.goodguysposse.org/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='

' /> 
 
[color="#556B2F"]3) Category restructuring ideas. 
[/color] 
I read Tex's article in the November Cowboy Chronicle (2010, p. 6-7) and can see a problem could occur with too many classes. They can be useful at large national, regional or state events, but they can over-fractionate the shooters at smaller events. I suggest copying what was being done at United States Chess Federation tournaments, back when I was playing at rated events. Have Category awards based upon a minimum number of entries within that category. Tex's suggestion to break down categories by age groups would serve for very large events. For smaller events, the Territorial Governor and/or Posse members can come up with a local schedule which says if there are 5 or 10 or however many shooters within a category, they will be eligible to compete for a prize. If there aren't enough people to qualify a particular category for a prize, they are just listed as shooting in the "such-and-such" category, and their times are listed, but they can't win anything besides a clean shoot coin. 
 
Snidely Whiplash

jeweler jim · November 2010

[color="#099000"][size="4"]Okay, I'm mailing the proxy to PaleWolf Brunelle today with the suggested voting as follows: 
 
1. [size="7"]NO[/size] 
 
2. NO 
 
3. YES (by a very slim margin) 
 
4. NO (and really a toss up) 
 
Pretty much a negative response to all discussion items. 
 
Told PaleWolf that the voting is really at his discretion as once you get to the summit things can change, be reworded and or new ideas change the way something can be understood. So the response we give him is our preference prior to any changes that might take place. 
 
Thank you to those that replied.[/size][/color]

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