Attention all ccw's

dd

We have had a CCW incident that was not done according to the law. I urge you to read about it here and follow to the end<br />
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http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=50689#entry783382<br />

Hopalong Strong

Thanks for sharing this!

dd

Keep in mind that I am not a lawyer and most of what I have to say is simply my personal opinion.<br />
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There have been several DGU (defensive gun use) incidents with CCWs but this recent one is a real classroom example for discussion. First, read the article here - http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-cops-concealed-carry-permit-holder-shoots-at-armed-robbery-suspect-20140728,0,2605611.story?track=rss<br />
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While I realize the media is not a good source for the facts, there are several issues here that we need to look at.<br />
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Was the CCW at any time under threat of "immediate, otherwise unavoidable, danger to life or great bodily harm"? <br />
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Should he have tried to contact the police while he was waiting outside the store?<br />
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Why did he fire at the perp? If he had hit him it probably would have been the back. In the old west, shooting someone in the back was the mark of a coward. In present day Illinois, shooting someone in the back is asking for trouble since the perp is leaving the scene and is likely no longer a threat to you.<br />
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This one isn't over by a long shot (no pun intended!) and it will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Meanwhile, remember that your CCW license only allows you to carry for defending yourself or others against "immediate, otherwise unavoidable, danger to life or great bodily harm". Your license does not come with a LEO badge, nor does it come with a Bat Cape. You are a private citizen who has the right and lawful means to defend yourself. Don't try to be a hero or a vigilante.<br />
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The below was lifted from the Illinois Carry website. While there are a couple of things I don't entirely agree with, I will quote it in it's entirety because it has some very good advice for CCW folks.<br />
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1. It's for SELF DEFENSE, not Stuff Defense.[/font]

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As much as you might want to use a firearm to stop someone from tampering with or stealing your "stuff", the courts look very unfavorably when someone uses deadly force to protect something that can be replaced by an insurance company. Using a firearm should be a last resort, and only to protect life.[/font]

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2. If you wouldn't do it without a gun, DON'T do it with a gun.<br />
If there are places you wouldn't go without a gun, don't go there with a gun. If there are people or situations you wouldn't approach without a gun, don't approach with a gun. Many people needlessly get into conflict because they think their gun can get them out of it. It's not a shield of invincibility. We often see these people on the wrong end of a court case, or being posthumously honored for their bravery.[/font]

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3. Shooting and drawing from a holster are DIMINISHING skills.[/font]

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Many think that taking a single class or practicing once a year, are all that's needed for defensive handgun skills. When the time comes that you need to use a firearm for self defense, it's like the personal Super Bowl of your life. Do you think quarterbacks only practice once a year or a couple of times a year? Plan a practice regimen, even if it's only 15 minutes of dry fire every week, or one visit to the range every month. If you have the time and interest, get involved with shooting sports (USPSA or IDPA). A firearm is an inanimate object, it requires skill to use it effectively.[/font]

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4. Be AWARE of your surroundings, listen to your gut, and AVOID conflict whenever you can.[/font]

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If you carry a firearm for protection, you need to be more aware of your surroundings than ever before. Allowing someone into close proximity (your personal space) can have deadly consequences if they're able to access your firearm before you can. Listen to your gut. Throw all the PC BS out the window. If your gut tells you someone doesn't look right, they probably aren't. If your "spidey sense" makes your arm hair stand up, it's time to start looking around for a way to avoid/evade, scan for additional threats, and look for cover if you can't avoid conflict. But YOU have to be in control of the distance. Standing in the open and waiting for a perpetrator is never a good idea. [/font]

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5. Concealed Carry does NOT equate to POLICE POWERS.[/font]

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You have not suddenly been given the right or responsibility to enforce any law with or without your firearm (especially with). This is why they issue a license that goes in your wallet, not a badge on your shirt. As much as we'd like to make sure that we keep the peace, a concealed handgun is for personal defense of life, defense of an innocent 3rd party's life, and defense of life in preventing a forcible felony. Drawing your gun to chase the kid out of the store so you can stop her from stealing a candy bar is not justifiable. This is not to say that you can't intervene, but it shouldn't be done with deadly force. Also, see rule #2. [/font]

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Let's keep the discussion going![/font]

dd

More..... The latest indicates the CCW will not be charged and suggests he had a reason to shoot. Since we are only getting bits and pieces of this it is hard to say what actually happened. Read it below-<br />
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http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/07/29/man-with-concealed-carry-permit-fires-at-robber-as-police-arrive/

dd

Ok, here is the latest, hot off the website pages go the Trib.<br />
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86-year-old won't be charged in concealed carry shooting, prosecutors say<br />
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By Dahleen Glanton and Carlos Sadovi, Tribune reporters

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5:07 pm, July 29, 2014<br />
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[font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)]Authorities have decided not to file charges against an 86-year-old Crestwood man who fired his legal weapon at an armed robbery suspect who was fleeing police, the Cook County state’s attorney’s office said today.[/background][/font]

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[font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)]The man, whom authorities would not identify, is licensed to carry a concealed gun in public, officials said. Authorities described him as a “model citizen” in Crestwood, a village of 11,000 residents in south suburban Cook County.[/background][/background][/font][/font]

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[font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)]The permit holder told police he was about to enter an AT&T store at 4756 W. Cal-Sag Road around noon on Saturday when he noticed the store was being robbed, Crestwood police said in a statement. The man stayed outside to prevent anyone from entering, police said, and after he saw the suspect leaving through a back door, entered the store and chased him.[/background][/background][/background][/font][/font][/font]

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[font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)]A police officer also was pursuing the suspect but had to duck for cover when the shots were fired. No one was injured.[/background][/background][/background][/font][/background][/font][/font][/font]

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[font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)]Assistant State’s Attorney Dan Kirk said the Crestwood Police Department declined to file charges and the state’s attorney sees no reason to pursue it further.[/background][/background][/background][/font][/background][/font][/background][/font][/font][/font]

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[font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)]“This is an 86-year-old law-abiding individual who comes across a forcible felony in progress … and helped others avoid being victims,” said Kirk.[/background][/background][/background][/font][/background][/font][/background][/font][/background][/font][/font][/font]

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[font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)][font=Georgia, Times, 'Times New Roman', serif][background=rgb(251, 252, 252)]The suspect, Demetrius Merrill, 17, of Chicago, was charged with armed robbery and held on $1 million bail.[/background][/background][/background][/font][/background][/font][/background][/font][/background][/font][/background][/font][/font][/font]

dd

All in all, a happy ending.

jeweler jim

[font=times new roman,times,serif]I can only speak for myself. I find that I'm seriously more reserved in any situation when I'm carrying. Sometimes one might find themselves playing to their own picture of their reputation or some such macho bs. You have to play as an adult when you strap on the gun and I'm thinking that fact is stressed by any proper instructor teaching the concealed carry courses.[/font]<br />
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[font=times new roman,times,serif]Lots of rumors and sub plots in the above incident with one being floated that he is an ex-cop, which could explain the no charges going forward. All anyone can do is hope they never have to clear leather and find themselves needing the services of a lawyer afterwards. Again, better to be judged by twelve than carried by six. Do you know who you would call if you need the defense? Do you perhaps have someone on retainer or have discussed this with the idea of knowing who you want to defend you if necessary. Trying to figure this one out from a jail cell would not be good and having your loved ones do the leg work might not be best either.[/font]<br />
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[font=times new roman,times,serif]Lots of good stuff written about the subject and covered in the classes also. No substitute for good planning and practice, practice, practice with the piece you carry. [/font]<br />
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[font=times new roman,times,serif]Well I'm off to the salt mines for another day.[/font]